"The first one is a labor of love, something you do because you can’t not write it."
This week on Second Chapter, hear from Becca Freeman on how seeing herself as a creative person led her to being published.
Today’s guest on Second Chapter is truly special for me! I’ve followed along with Becca’s creative career since she launched Bad on Paper Podcast with Grace Atwood (now co-hosted with
). While we’ve never met, I’ve always felt like I had some similarities with Becca. The strongest one (to me anyways) is that we both wanted to pursue a more creative career but felt like our ‘left brain’ side of things held us back.Becca started opening up about this on BOP, sharing how she was starting to see herself as a creative person by launching a series of romcom podcasts and then her book. Here was this brave woman with a similar professional background to mine, who could embrace her ‘right brain’ and see herself as a creative person because she always was one. And if she could do it, I figured I could try, too.
Ever since, she’s been such an inspiration to me. Someone who I look to for writing and publishing advice along with the best book recommendations. The community that her and Olivia (and previously, Grace) have built through their honesty, quirkiness and being a light in these times is something that makes me feel more connected (though damn Geneva for no longer being accessible in the UK!).
Anyways, enough from me! Read on below to find out how Becca started seeing herself as a creative person, what she’s learned from writing book 2, and her one piece of advice for aspiring authors.
Let’s start in the past. Tell us about your pre-author career journey. What did you do and how did you get into it?
For most of my pre-author career I worked in marketing for e-commerce brands. I was in-house for 8 years working at different startups, and then left to go freelance in 2018.
What was the spark that lit your drive to becoming a published author?
I think I always wanted to write a book—I’ve been a lifelong avid reader—but it felt too out of reach, or I didn’t think I had the skills to do it. For a long time, I didn’t think of myself as a creative person, since my job was more left-brained. Reading Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert in 2016 really started to change that mentality. Then, when the pandemic hit, I suddenly had so much more time (and anxiety), and started writing a book almost on a lark, just to see if I could.
Juggling anything with a day job is hard work, especially something as in-depth as writing a book. Can you tell us how you did it?
I was consulting 20 - 30 hours a week, along with working on “Bad on Paper,” the podcast I co-host. All things considered, it was a fairly flexible schedule. At that point, all my clients were on the west coast, and I’m in NYC, so I would work on my book from 10 - 12 on weekdays before they got online.
Did your first career help in your writing at all?
Not really. I think my history as a reader was far more helpful than any hard or soft skills I had from my marketing background.
Did you have any preconceived notions / myths about becoming a writer? How did you overcome those?
So many! Writers are my personal rockstars! I thought that every book tour was its own version of The Eras Tour, albeit with smaller venues and fewer sequins. I also didn’t know anything about the publication process when I started writing. Podcasts like “First Draft with Sarah Enni” (RIP, but the archives are still great) and “The Shit No One Tells You About Writing” (
) helped to demystify that piece. But also, I think it’s helpful to be a bit naive going in and not to know quite how steep the mountain is that you’re climbing.Did you employ any tips and tricks to help you write? If so, what were they?
I love craft books. Reading Save the Cat by Blake Snyder and Save the Cat Writes a Novel by Jessica Brody were instrumental to my understanding of plotting. Also Story Genius by Lisa Cron.
I try to stick to a word count goal when I’m drafting (usually 1,000 or 1,500 words) and write 4 days a week (5 is ideal, but often too aggressive; I almost always have a day where something comes up or I just don’t feel like it and writing falls by the wayside). I still block out writing time calendar as if it is an appointment. I’ve used the Time Timer to good effect in the past. But, honestly, I think the main thing is that it is hard to write a book. It feels hard because it is hard. So, no matter your arsenal of tips and tricks, the main thing is to find what works for you, get your butt in the chair, and put in the hours.
A huge element of writing and the path to publishing comes from a cultivated community. What is your writing community like and how did you find it?
I didn’t have a lot of writing community while I was writing my first book. Most of that came later, after I sold the book. But I did feel extremely lucky that my podcast co-host,
, was also writing her first novel at the same time as me. She became my co-host in 2022, so we were both already solidly on the road (I started drafting my first book in December 2020), but having someone also in the muck to touch base with every week was invaluable.Later, after I sold my book and felt more comfortable claiming the title of “writer” I’ve met many more fellow authors, mostly via Instagram and now Substack. I’m also in a small online writers group via Slack. I think of them almost like my co-workers, checking in on the day’s progress for accountability, running things by each other in a “is this normal?” way.
Lastly, I’ll say I’m pretty shameless in DMing authors whose work I enjoy and trying to strike up a friendship, especially if they’re earlier in their career. I was in Portland, OR last weekend and invited Holly Brickley to coffee who has an incredible debut coming out in Feb. She was lovely!
The Christmas Orphans Club is published by Penguin Books. Could you tell us about your path to publishing?
I had a fairly non-traditional (and charmed) path to publication. My agent actually found me via my podcast. I used to feel a tremendous amount of guilt about this, but a friend helped me reframe it that instead of slogging through the query trenches, I spent 5 years building a podcast, which was also hard—albeit different—work. I connected with my agent pretty early on while I was still writing my first draft, but I didn’t show her anything until my third draft (if I had queried, I probably would have gone one more draft before sending).
Once we formally decided to work together, we worked on a round of edits primarily focused on deepening the emotion and more tightly integrating one of the side characters. From there, we took the book out on submission and had calls with various interested editors. From the first call, I really felt like I “clicked” with the person who would go on to become my editor and that she really got the book.
Once the book was acquired (Oct 2022), we had an incredibly tight timeline to edit the book together and get it ready for a fall 2023 publication. Since my book is a holiday book, there’s a really tight window that it needs to come out in. I was told, but not sure I realized how lightning quick it was at the time (publishing moves slowly!). We worked on 2.5 rounds of edits (2 real ones and a quick clean up) over the course of 2.5 months and the book headed off to copyedits.
If you want to hear about it from their side, too, I had both my agent and editor on my podcast for an episode about how my book got made.
To be able to pivot any career, there’s usually a supporting financial element tied to it. Did you have any financial support that helped you on your journey? Could you share what that looked like?
I didn’t. I wrote my first book alongside what I was already doing to earn an income. Because I started writing during the pandemic, I will say that I had more time than usual because I suddenly had so many fewer social and travel plans, which gave me more time to work. But outside of that, it was 100% on top of what was already on my plate, which I think is the case for many authors. The first one is a labor of love, something you do because you can’t not write it.
There’s also a blackhole when it comes to how much authors make, enabling a myth that once you’re a published author you can write full-time as the only source of income. But it's not always that simple or linear! Could you tell us a bit more about how this is working for you financially?
When I sold my book, I gleefully quit my day job, which I’d stopped enjoying a few years before that point. There’s a reason they tell you not to quit your day job… I felt certain that if I’d written a book in 2 years while working, certainly I could write a book in 1 year with more time. Turns out, I could not! I’m 2 years into book 2 and still editing away. So, the money is having to stretch further than anticipated.
Right now, I operate a portfolio career between writing, my podcast, and as of 2024 I added a paid newsletter tier into the mix. But going into 2025, I’m definitely thinking about how to grow the non-book-writing parts of my income pie or considering taking on a consulting client again.
What advice would you give to aspiring authors?
Finish the draft! Personally, I have a compulsion to keep going back to the beginning, re-reading and tinkering. But finish the draft (whether it’s the first or the hundredth), then go in and read it in full and see what you have and what needs to change. I wish I were better about this, so it’s advice to myself, too. I can’t tell you how many dozens (hundreds?) of hours I waste going back and re-reading just to reassure myself or tinkering with sections that later get cut.
What did you learn about yourself during this process?
I learned that I can write a book, which didn’t feel like a given at the beginning of the process. I also learned I had a much looser grip on grammar rules than I might have thought. The copyediting process was a learning experience!
Are there other Second Chapter authors that inspired you? If yes, who are they?
I’m not sure I know of many authors who aren’t second chapter authors. Mhairi McFarlane and Emily Henry are always two north stars for me, they quite literally make me laugh out loud on the page and are so masterful with dialog. No one does setting like Carley Fortune. More broadly, I respect Elin Hilderbrand tremendously, she’s written so many books and has had such a huge readership for so long, but didn’t really cross into mainstream success and respect until much later in her career.
What’s been one read in 2024 that you haven't been able to stop thinking about?
I’ve been thinking about Margo’s Got Money Troubles by Rufi Thorpe since I read it back in May (?). One thing I’ve been craving in my reading life this year is novelty, and this book has all these elements that you wouldn’t expect to go together (creative writing, professional wrestling, online sex work, Pokemon), nor would I expect some of them to even appeal to me (looking at you, wrestling and Pokemon), and yet it all comes together in such a fantastic way. Plus, I always love when a book manages to walk the line between pace and theme, and this one MOVED while also saying so much at a deeper level. Rufi Thorpe is now an auto-buy author for me.
Thank you so much, Becca! Truly, with every new interview, piece she writes or a podcast episode, I learn something new from her - and I hope you did, too.
Be sure to add THE CHRISTMAS ORPHANS CLUB to your next read, if you haven’t already. For more from Becca, you can follow her on Instagram and Substack (
), and listen to Bad on Paper Podcast.As always, thank you for reading!
I love putting this weekly newsletter together, highlighting how authors moved into their Second Chapter, hopefully inspiring aspiring authors along the way.
If you find yourself enjoying these interviews, please consider subscribing, hearting or commenting (those little actions make a big difference to the visibility of this newsletter).
<333
Loved reading this!